1. End of the World Meeting Notes.pdf

End of the World – G to Z IRSC Meeting

Grangeville, ID

September 10th, 2025

Kevin Hake- Project Manager/Facilitator

Matt Daigle-Contract Specialist/Teams Monitor

OFFICE PORTION

- PowerPoint Agenda Items Project Overview Goals Proposed Activities o Thoughts for answering on the RFI o 1 - Jungle Bird – Starter Sale o Purchaser Question – Are the sales on the map (5 sales) self-supporting? Are they self-sustaining on their own?

Maybe not, and that is why we are proposing the project. We intend this meeting to be project building and fostering an environment where we can explore options with each other. Hake reminded the group that the RFI questions are due on 9/17. We aren’t discussing rates or values today, asked that they include specific questions for their company in their RFI response.

o Purchaser Question – Are the units on the map feasibly sized?

o What is a reasonable size to cut up the area?

o Are the 5 the right size? Too big? Too small?

o Purchaser question – Will the FS have flexibility for when more areas of harvest could be available ahead of time?

We don’t want to get spread out too thin, but we will be flexible. You will need to clean up where you started before moving on to the next area.

Wooly Bully – in the middle of prep, the rest of the sale areas will be blank slates.

Maximize the removal of non-saw. Kevin Hake encouraged the group to be creative in the methods they utilize, merchandise and remove non saw material such as pulp wood, chip wood, or biomass. Maybe there is a central location to bring non-saw to be manufactured for chips or biomass.

Purchaser question - Have the mapped PCT acres been looked at in depth? ‘It seems like maybe your PCT units have been a little better scouted than your regen/harvest units.’

Yes, most of the polygons are based off past harvest.

o Purchaser question – Is the predicted volume the same as the standing volume?

-Predicted volume is currently a gross estimate, expected to be conservative. Contract volume estimations, outside of Jungle Bird, will be calculated using a combination of plots and Lidar.

o Purchaser question – Is there outside funding? How much is added? Is there potential for the project(s) to grow and morph?

We want the Purchaser to optimize the time and efforts by completing the tasks while in one area, before moving to the next.

Purchaser question - Based on feasibility or based on the sale or amount of funding?

We usually are not in the service world and having to secure funding.

This sale is one that we knew could be feasible and get us out of the woods.

Purchaser question - You are still working out what the scoring would be based on those options?

o We are trying to break down the volume…good volume vs bad volume. Attainable outcomes across the entire project.

o Purchaser question – How should we look to include the undefined acres? What about the ground between the harvest units and NEPA boundary?

o Yellow lines vs. blue lines. If/when the Purchasers express interest in harvesting outside the unit, into the NEPA unit, the Purchaser would provide a plan for removing that volume. The plan is reviewed by COR(?) for suitability. We (FS) are still building this workflow.

o Purchaser question - With virtual boundaries in mind, how did the forest service set it up? Using a tablet with Avenza, or ESRI Field Maps on your phone or tablet? What was the acceptable tolerance for that?

o This project will be End Result, so virtual boundaries aren’t required but they may be used.

The acceptable tolerance is zero, inspections will be performed, and measurements will be taken to ensure that the correct PacFish buffer was applied and buffered accordingly.

Purchaser question – The area we are looking at has been logged in for the last 70 years. Inside the polygons, how many of the historic road systems are still intact? Is the polygon used for cutting available by existing roads, etc. What systems still exist?

o Typical from what that era was…the templates are there. It has been broken down by non-system and system roads. There are existing templates, yes. Non-system roads will be treated as temporary roads and will require some form of storage once use is done.

o Is a late fall site visit worth it?

o Might be dependent upon contract questions. Layout, boundaries, etc.

o Tentative site visit planned the last week in October.

o Purchaser question – Can we get a list of the Forest Service Standards in writing? Like Old Growth, Snags, Riparian Zones, Safe Haul, Virtual Boundary, shovel yarding and tethering provisions, slope breaks for feller bunchers shovels, Road Maintenance, define deep fill, DxP, DxD, Aggregate Crushing Sieve Analysis, road resurfacing, and when ‘spec rock’ is necessary. Some of those standards or design features are nice to know. These are the rules, etc.

o We will come out at the end and measure. Off streams etc. We will not get into the nanometer for boundaries. Water will be the big one though. That must be right.

o Marking - Silv shop is working on marking guide…purchaser will choose how, as long as you are meeting that marking guide.

o 45 – 60 days of solicitation depending on time of year and where we are.

o With the emphasis on streams, it would be nice to come back for a site visit.

o That is an example on what is needed in writing…what are all the rules.

Questions o The project size is basically the south zone. How do you envision the impact on the rest of the sales on the zone/forest?

• These projects, the way Jon and Kevin see it, you will have to tell us what you are going to do every year. Not 10 years’ worth of doing what you want. What you tell us will factor into what we are doing and planning. We will use this as part of our target and what we do. Contracting will take pressure off of the prep work which should help shift that capacity elsewhere.

• Conceptually, we will start at Jungle Bird. There are optional units but then you could build the package for Wooly Bully. That will give us a volume that we can roll out.

• Some initial estimates of the projects we will roll into this to get as much as possible work done out there. We have a general idea of the additional work we are not going to be taking off the table. We are doing our best to step up the program with tools like GNA. We will not punish the industry for helping find more volume. We will still put out the sales we had planned.

• Potentially this could be an option on other districts?

o Yes, we are working on the NEPA side of it.

o Capacity – Say the project generates significant value/receipts. The contractors are doing well in a certain area of work. Can the contract be flexible to award “like work” outside the project area?

Goal is to get as much treated as possible but are we technically able to do it?

Get as many acres treated as possible so most likely the answer will be no because we would be taking away from acres with in the area.

Non saw – What is the most economical way to deal with it?

o Most of the time it is burning. That will play a part in value.

Capacity for road survey, road work etc., Does it have to be engineer or someone with experience?

• Temp Roads that are not in the atlas, standard forester is okay.

• For Design you need Licensed Professional Engineer (PE)

Will FS own the design on arterial roads? Will that fall to the contractor?

• Good Question. We don’t necessarily have answers yet.

How does some of the accounting work? We will know end result? How do we track how much wood goes out?

Internal – 5 year plan Will go over the scale for tracking if it is by the ton. But, it could be different.

Some feedback on what the best for merch vs is non merch and how we will track it.

There is identified old growth (OG) that interlaps with some of the intermediate units. The hard and fast rules with old growth apply. In those areas that overlap, we must maintain old growth characteristics. Basically, it will be identified to everyone and will be its own areas.

Purchaser question – If OG polygon is virtual boundary, we could accidently pad into the area without being aware of it, and accidently cut a tree from that polygon area. Even if that tree isn’t old growth, it’s in that polygon, are we in trouble?

o Boundary designations will be up to the contractor. We will provide OG polygons and will be doing field inspections to check compliance. We will be treating within OG stands, they will have their own specific cutting designations.

Purchaser question - What if the OG just isn’t there?

Silv: I trust the data, so if it’s there, the polygon will be there too.

This would be nice if there was an information flow. We do not have to wait for the RFP to get that but it is available as needed to those who are interested.

Maybe during a fall visit it would be focused on NEPA compliance. Streams examples and old growth. Cultural, etc.

• Private and Cultural are hard lines and probably will remain in house with the FS.

• Design features are the cliff notes of the NEPA. Best to read that. Stay within the decision.

Can be posted online.

Discussed several times the need for Design Features, Unit Prescriptions, OG direction, FS Standards, Road Specifications, etc will need to be well defined within the solicitation.

• Access o Within the project there is a small piece that the road goes through private, the rest is good that we know of.

• Any other agreement would be between the contractor and landowner.

• Winter restrictions o Circles around the paved road. We need to and want to use it but also protect it. No dates but we are looking at different options.

o 221 being Dec 1 - Apr 15 for Snowmobiling – Grooming.

Spring closures should be put together with county. Estimates on the road restrictions. This will all vary year by year depending on the weather.

FIELD PORTION

- Two-hundred-foot fuel break along the entire length of the 221 road (both sides). Some areas are more wooded, some are less. Need to be creative on how the non-merchantable is handled? Most of it is in the defined sales, but some of it is not and it will need to be dealt with.

- Nonsaw – What will happen with it?

We want it gone but we have not determined what that is.

Burn?

o Could be an option, removal of any merchantable product is preferred. In some area’s we will likely look at strategic piling.

- Gravel Pit – Some stocked with the ability for more.

- Spec Roads o Purchaser Question - Can we place aggregate surfacing on the roads after the harvesting activities?

Current guideline o Rated on landscape, not roads o Still need to determine the minimum.

o FS Standards have been and are higher for safe to haul.

Where are the safe to haul standards?

o Purchasers have asked many times but it seems as if no one knows.

o The FS Manual could answer that.

Will culverts be provided by the government or the contractor?

o The FS probably does not have the funds to cover those.

- Species or Spacing?

Flexible but probably spacing Silv says they would probably prefer species.

- Are there historical treatment maps?

We can provide past harvest polygons.

- We would like feedback on how to make sure that we don’t end up with 10 years of almost done work.

Purchasers say there will have to be flexibility for seasonal work. They don’t want to log their winter ground in the summer, and vice versa.

- We don’t want the FS to be what holds anyone up.

Fuels will have to find a way to be available.

No burning of units or piles in contract. FS will do that.

- How are we ranked or graded?

Optimizing acres?

We have not arrived there yet on weighting and metrics.

- There will need to be discussions for other haul routes that may be available.

- We would like input on a real timeline to accomplish this. Balance getting the work done in a timely fashion.

Empire says probably not 10 years for them.

Ambiguity still exists for IFG if they can. IFG says their gut is saying 10-15 years.

- A fall meeting will be a great follow up.

- There is data that is available to all.

- Are there helicopter units?

No.

- What happens if a fire comes through and burns up the area?

Will there be a cancellation?

o Matt will have to give guidance on that.

- Trees per acre, what is easier?

Spacing Basal area in R6 but it takes training.

D x D or D x P. Operator needs to know the difference in the species.

Anything can be adopted and adapted.

- How will the HI and SA adapt?

Unit based – 80 or 100 per acre Building in flexibility.

- Painting boundaries. Which paint is to be used?

We are not specifying that.

- Water areas. Will we need to flag out the SPZ prior to operating or just make sure that we maintain?

We are not specifying that but water is very important and will need to be protected according to

PacFish buffers.

Q&A From Teams Chat

• Is the project self-funding? Potentially, we want to make this as self-sustaining as possible to complete objectives

• Is the basal area (BA) standard of 100-120 BA a plantation requirement or across the board? The 100-120 BA is kind of standard. There will be some variability across the landscape down to 60 BA.

• In the RFI it mentions a Spring of 26 for award, is the Q4 award a change? The Q4 date in the RFI is the worst case, there are multiple new processes that we need to work this through that may cause delays outside our control.

• Will the FS have flexibility to allow operations to occur in multiple areas for harvest? That is not off the table, the big thing is making sure we are cleaning up behind us and not getting spread out.

• Have the mapped PCT acres been looked at as hard as the harvest acres? No

• Still working on what the scoring would be for additional volume? Yes, still working through this, where we want to get to is and have work in a contract is including undefined areas with defined results.

• Within the polygons on the map, how much of the transportation system still exists out there? We tried to break it down by system and non-system roads, prisms are still out there and visible. We can share all of our spatial and LiDAR data to help show this better.

• Seems like there will be an issue with virtual boundaries?

• How long are you planning to solicit for? 45-60 days is what we are thinking right now, if possible, we could go longer, all depends on when we have the package complete and clearance to proceed from

USDA.

• Say the contract contributes significant receipts to the Forest Service, is it possible to add new areas to this project? Will be difficult to add new areas after award, if areas are not included as optional then no.

We do have the ability to collect retained receipts with the IRSC model if it comes to that.

• What is going to be required for road surveys? Certified engineers or can someone with 20 years’ experience do it? We are working through this, we are not planning to require any certified plans from the awardee, this could change

• How recent is the LiDAR for this area? 10 years old, we will have new LiDAR data early next year.

• Is there a possibility to partner with private landholders for fuels reduction via a GNA? (Jungle Bird area)?

Currently not at this time. GNA can only be used on federal ground at this point. Informally something could be done between the awardee and private land owners but not supplemental to this contract.

• Will there be snowmobiling closures in the project area? Winter haul was just mentioned and the main road is used for snowmobiling. We intend to have winter haul, some things we need to work through on this still. In the past we have addressed this successfully via agreement in timber sales.

• Is it possible to go longer than 10 years? Thinking of some of the work, 10 years may not be enough time.

Current law does allow for stewardship contracts out to 20 years provided certain sideboards are met, nothing allows a longer term, something to consider is that laws are updated and this could change.