DOI_Industry_Day_transcript_and_acquisition_presentation_3-27-26_5.pdf

March 27, 2026 Department of the Interior Industry Day transcription

Department of the Interior Industry Day Meeting Recording (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8_p1Bl7sRA)

March 27, 2026, 3:30PM; Yates Auditorium in Main Interior Building, Washington DC

Transcript [Tyler Kellogg] Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll begin in about one minute.

Well, good morning, everyone. Hopefully the trip in was nice. I'm sorry it rained today. It’s a shame the cherry blossoms are almost in peak bloom right now. My name is Tyler Kellogg. I serve as the advisor to the Secretary and on behalf of Secretary Burgum and the Department, welcome to our Department's Industry Uniform Day. We're genuinely grateful that you're all here in this room. We have colleagues from across the DOI bureaus, the Army Corps of Engineers, fellow federal agencies, and partners from our Made in America Office, and businesses who came today because they believe this effort is worth showing up for. That means a great deal to us. And again, thank you.

Just something personal before I begin. I served nine years in the active duty and continued to serve in the National Guard. Today, every time I put on that uniform, I am incredibly proud to wear it. Part of that pride comes knowing that I was made by American hands. That's not a small thing to me and it is a point of honor, so when I tell you the Department is serious about this effort, I'm not just speaking as a policy official, I'm speaking as someone who's worn a uniform for most of his adult life and who believes the people who serve this country deserve to be outfitted by the country they serve. That conviction extends to every uniformed employee of the Department. Rangers officers, fire crews, wildlife biologists and law enforcement agents. The men and women who stand watch over America's public lands from the rim of the Grand Canyon to the shores of the Chesapeake every year, the Department spends millions on uniforms that employees wear. That is a significant investment of taxpayer dollars, and the Department has made a deliberate decision about where those dollars should go. That decision is grounded in clear direction from the President and his management agenda.

The US government is the single largest buyer of goods and services in the world.

That is extraordinary leverage and this administration plans to use it intentionally.

On its first day back in August, the President signed the America First trade policy, directing agencies to maximize domestic procurement. Earlier this month, the president signed a new Made in America Executive Order reinforcing that

Sarah Welch Highlight

Sarah Welch Highlight

Department of the Interior Industry Day transcription March 27, 2026 commitment and making it clear that when this government says it's buying American, it means that vision. [To be] straightforward, federal procurement dollars should not simply buy products. They should rebuild industries and when the American government buys American, it sustains American factories, American jobs and American supply chains. DOI's contracting office is just one small piece of that larger effort and we intend to do our part.

The Department is acting on that direction and we are establishing, within all applicable laws and regulations, a new procurement vehicle designed to increase domestic sourcing of uniforms and textiles across all of our bureaus and that more than anything is why we are here today. We want to understand why American industry can deliver and what they can deliver, what you make, what your capacity looks like and how we can structure a solicitation that gives domestic manufacturers a real path to winning this work. Let me be direct. We do not want to inadvertently write requirements that favor foreign procurement. If the way we've been buying uniforms has made it more difficult for domestic manufacturers, we want to know that today and what we can do to fix it.

We have displays on the floor that you can see following this meeting about what our bureaus need, their field uniforms, their dress uniforms, outwear and ancillary items, and we're going to walk through those items together. We're going to examine whether any of those existing specifications are inadvertently pushing the acquisition away from domestic suppliers. That is a question we intend to answer before we scope the solicitation. We have contracting officials here who can speak to the requirements in detail. We will set aside time for one-on-one sessions so you can have a direct conversation with us and our contracting leaders.

Here's what we are asking for you to do today. Engage with us, honestly. Tell us what you can do, what you can't do, tell us what your capacity is and if there are structural barriers standing between American manufacturers and this contract, we want to know because the goal is not to hold an industry day - the goal is to award a contract that puts American made uniforms on American federal workers. President Trump's administration is committed to this and to speak to that commitment directly, on behalf of the Made in America Office, I am pleased to welcome Michael Stumo.

[Michael Stumo] So the Buy America Act was from 1933, Berry [Amendment] not that long after. And I got into my position last year and it was astounding. I mean, I kind of knew, but how non-compliant the government had been [with] various Buy America laws, so right now we're cutting through the thicket of the barrier between our procurement and buying American. And really appreciate Tyler and Greg Washer [?] and Secretary Burgum and the whole team for leading the way on the Interior side, which of course is not governed by Berry [Amendment]. Ideally, I'd like to see, you know, the whole of government buy USA made uniforms; textiles, that is. You know we are and will be making progress on that. We need you to keep pushing us, keep pushing across agencies, but for the, you know, the Border Patrol is wearing uniforms made in Honduras. Secret Service making uniforms made in Southeast Asia.

It's, you know, once you actually know, you can't unsee that, right? When I got here, the White House gift shop. My deputy is Joanna Wischer; she is not here today but she came in and said it's all Chinese. And we went in there. There's a building I work in the Eisenhower Executive Office building is a little gift shop. You can get some, you know, like a cup and some, you know, you know what you get in gift shops and there's nothing made here. And actually I had gotten a call from The West Wing on that. That's how it came about. And then Joanna went and did research and took pictures. And we found the folks that, you know, buy the stuff for the gift shop. Said, you know, this is like White House logos on it's approved. You got to get the logo approved. You got to, you know, you got to keep with the branding, the IP, all that made in China underneath. What about all that detail? And what about that part?

Well, I didn't know where, you know, Where do we get it cost and all that sort of thing? But they've the guys actually of Navy and the Marines sort of run the White House Navy mess and you know the gift shop too? And so the guy, you know, he was not resistant, he was just befuddled. How do we do it? So we got some, I think Kim Glass helped get some, where's Kim? Got some names of some suppliers that make these shirts, make the cups, make the hat, whatever and so it's represented to be all USA made in the White House Gift shop, which is nice. It doesn't put, you know, you all the work, but it's sort of indicative. I've got one of the first cups that came out-of-the-box. They were very proud and actually, and once you cut through the thicket of buying American; once they get there, at least the procurement people I talked to are kind of proud of it. It's kind of fun. Wow, we accomplished something, but you start out and Oh my gosh, you know, everything is efficiency and economy of procurement. Lowest cost, acceptable quality, right? And that's hard wired. That's how they're trained. That's how they get, you know, their certifications.

And that's how of course, there's budget considerations too, we see. Unreasonable fears of excessive cost usually when they haven't looked in it, there's a fear of more cost than there is in some cases, depending on the product, there's none, of course there's the quality side too. Helping our procurement officials through from you know, my side and your side, there are more tools than Berry [Amendment] to do these things. You can… the solicitation, the RFP can include other requirements from quality to geographic to you know, presumably resiliency. I don't think we've fully explored all of that. But there's also, Tyler, Industrial Mobilization authorities, and this is an industry the President has designated as an important industry. And there you can do your research and decide this is what we're doing to mobilize industry.

It's easy. It's in the Federal acquisition regulations. It should not be abused to reward your brother-in-law, but for this; Is something that is quite efficient. And then it sets aside some of those other rules, but I know. I don't know all of you or most, but I know there's a lot of underutilized capacity here. There's a lot of room to grow with existing capacity. And I know there's a lot of room to grow with existing production. And so as I think you know, I am a warrior for you and I want this to work and I know that other agencies are coming around. They're looking at this, more than looking. They're active, so keep pushing. Interior is blazing the trail with Tyler's leadership. In doing this, which really I don't know if it's been done, you know, at Interior for, when? And so it's not always fun being the tip of the spear with all the other considerations sometimes, but with your support keep pushing. I know sometimes in the past you've gotten kind of depressed about the progress. But now there's reason for optimism and we will get this done. Thank you.

[Tyler Kellogg] Now we’re going to move into our procurement update.

Slides are on the final pages of this transcription.

[Michelle Yates] Good morning. It is a good morning, right? Good morning. I want to first introduce myself. I am Michelle Yates. I am the Chief of Contracting for DOI.

We support NPS, and I want to introduce Sarah Welch. She is a CO that's helping on the uniform contract and we also have Jaime Mijares, a lot of you might know her or heard her name, she's also a CO, and we have Nancy [Lewis] here, she is our solicitor that is helping us with this acquisition, so, if we can start the slideshow. Thank you, Tyler.

Okay, so as many of you may or may not know, this describes our IDIQ, our current uniform contract. It's an IDIQ which means indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity type contract. It was solicited as a full and open competition with a subcontracting plan, which means we work with other contractors. It was solicited under FAR Parts 12 and 15, which some of you, I know you're very well versed in those chapters of the FAR in FY22. It is a firm, fixed priced [contract] and we have task orders based on employee allowances like in [National] Park Service. The employees get an allowance, we do bulk orders of specific items and it's currently almost 1000 individual items and it's $130 million IDIQ ceiling that goes over five years.

I do want to talk if we go the next slide. I'm sorry. I'll tell you the next slide. Sorry, it's impromptu. Here are the participants that are currently on this IDIQ - National Park Service, can I have you [stand up]? There, that's Ramie [Lynch], bear with me, Jaime., I'll say names too. So if you do the CORs, because I'm still learning names, we also have Bureau of Land Management – Karrie [Davin].

We have Bureau of Reclamation – Anika [Johnson], I'm sorry. I know your name, I just get nervous.

Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement - John, thank you and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers - Heath [Kruger] and then US Park Police – Jonathan Hofflinger; yep, there he is, there's a beauty queen wave and then we have US Fish and Wildlife – Wade [King], love your wave.

So those are our participants.

I know some other bureaus are looking at maybe possibly a participating in the future acquisition. Next slide please.

As you can see by the table, NPS has the most uniformed employees. We have about 12,000 full-time, 8,000 seasonal and about 420 worldwide park units.

BLM has 4,000, which is 195 offices.

BOR has 300.

BSEE has 20.

USACE has 2,600 permanent and 1,200 seasonal.

USPP has 700+ law enforcement and I think is growing at this point.

USFWS has about 6,500, including full time and seasonal [employees].

So in each Bureau there are a variety of uniform categories. For example, NPS has a Class A dress uniform for the Park Rangers, and you can see examples of that over here (I think Park Service is over here) and then Class B for less formal occasions at work, uniforms worn by trail crews and maintenance workers, law enforcement and specialty items etcetera which are on display over there. Each one of these includes their own components from head to toe for summer and winter. As you know, some of our park units are in Alaska all the way down to the desert. A portion of each seasonal workforce is new or new each year, and they have to be completely outfitted. A small portion of the uniform items are used for more than one Bureau, but many of these still require customization, such as adding identifying patches.

On next on the next slide, I'll mention some of the challenges and work environments that we experience in these bureaus. Sorry, sorry. OK. Employee duty stations. Bear with me, I'm a little nervous as I just explained. We have extremely cold, cold climates such as Alaska, Montana and North Dakota, and we'll say South Dakota too. An extremely hot desert such as we know the Mojave Desert. Tropical climates like Florida, Caribbean and American Samoa and Virgin Islands. Remote and very remote areas for delivery. And that require a modern, flexible approach to fabrics, patterns and finishes. I think at the time when you're going around to the COR tables, talk with those bureaus, probably a little more about their products and Jaime can answer some of those questions too. I guess I should slow down, I talk kind of fast. Let me know if I need to slow down. Next slide please.

Here is the DOI uniform requirement. The current award provides for full service, one stop shop for civilian uniforms, patches, insignias, headwear, footwear, outerwear related items, and customizations for each Bureau, program and contract management, product inventory management, uniform service operations such as sourcing, first article testing, warehousing, knitting, shipping and customization and customer service. So that's basically what we go through with the current contract.

Next slide please.

The uniform requirement the current IDIQ requires the contractor to provide a secure website for uniform ordering and account management system - WBOS that has processes such as orders, returning exchanges, cancellations, adding and replacing or selling discontinued items as needed; payment from employee allowances (a lot of bureaus give the employees allowance every year and those are authorized through task orders against the current IDIQ), government charge cards, and personal charge card and debit cards. It also does reporting for us. Next slide.

So the task order management, how that works against the current IDIQ, currently in pricing period 4. It's a five year ordering period and it ends September 27th, 2028.

US FWS and BLM typically use multiple task orders. NPS, USACE, and USPP typically order one task order each year. And BSEE and BOR typically issue item-specific task orders. [Next slide.] Industry Day objectives - our objectives today. So we want to have an open exchange of ideas and industry patterns; Seek industry expertise to help understand and refine requirements; Ensure strategy promotes and robust fair competition;

Address industry questions and concerns; Obtain market knowledge for this requirement. Next slide please.

In conclusion, DOI contracting intends to hold one-on-one virtual meetings with interested companies in the near future. Stop by the contracting table after the break for more information regarding this. The panel discussion is open forum and seeking industry input. Industry questions will be answered to the best of our participants’ current understanding of the plans, objectives and general solution.

No information will be contractually binding. OK. And we also, like I said, we're looking forward to talking to you. Please come up with questions and do understand that this is market research for us. This is us seeing what the industry is looking for and what we're looking for too. Next slide.

Here comes the disclaimer. OK, market research. This is only market research for us.

This participation panel discussion is for market research purposes only. This is not a solicitation and does not constitute a request for proposals, quotes or bids. The government is not obligated to award a contract based on this information. Any information provided by industry is voluntary and will be used to inform acquisition planning. The government will not reimburse any costs associated with attending this industry day. Responses may be used to help determine acquisition strategies, small business participation and Buy American considerations. Thank you. All right.

Thank you everyone. We have to say the rules.

[Tyler Kellogg] A little loud right there could be turned down a little bit. That's perfect. Good afternoon, I’ll be the moderator for this. Turn it down just a little bit, it's a little loud. Just discussing why we're here today overall, I mentioned it before, it's providing insight to us. Contracting is very complex. I'm not a contract officer.

I was a research analyst for two years for Army DoD procurement. That being said, I'm not a subject matter expert. That's why we've assembled subject matter experts in the room. So we're going to focus on a couple key areas today and we ask that you guys provide us questions, feedback overall, and we have some questions that I believe we've posted on SAM.gov so that you could hopefully provide some feedback to us for, so just some of the items we're going to focus on today. So, Made in America requirements - what are they, the draft performance work statement, feedback, pricing structure, sourcing, and product specifications, and ordering systems, and timelines. The goal, like I said in my introductory remarks, is to understand what your capabilities are, what your constraints are, and your limitations are to help inform our acquisition approach. So first, starting off with Made in America requirements overall, I'd like to open up to the room. Are there any initial questions from the introductory remarks or feedback from the audience?

Sure. Of course. Actually we have mikes over here too. State your name where you're coming from, your organization, too, before your question. That'd be fantastic.

[Jackie Ferrari] Sure, I'll stand. I'm Jackie Ferrari from American fashion network. I know a lot of you here, some I don't. My question is, would you consider doing this by category - like shirts and then pants, because a lot of the factories don't do both.

So I feel like if it's not separated or there isn't an option in there for a separation that you're going to knock out some really good participants that could do one or the other.

[Tyler Kellogg] So we're here for open engagement too, that's great to see from the, that's fantastic for us to know by the uniform type and items based for the different bureaus, would that be the, like, pants? For a vehicle or how do you see that going to be the most beneficial for?

[Jackie Ferrari] I think it would be most beneficial to have, you know, like your button down shirts. You know, I don't think it has to be like across all of your agencies. I think that really we can manage how you buy it; I mean, the beauty about American manufacturing; of course, everybody loves long, deep runs. But the beauty of what we do here for serving the government for so long is we can do small batch and I think we do that better than any country in the world. So I think it has to work for how you buy it, but it just would be a nice option that if you have a shirt factory and they are exceptional at shirts, they shouldn't be left out because you put a solicitation out as a shirt and a pant [contract]. So I think really depending how you guys do it, how it works best for you, but just to keep that in mind so that all factories can participate.

[Tyler Kellogg] inaudible question/comment [Jackie Ferrari] I mean small batch could run 300 pieces to, you know, 300,000 pieces.

I mean I will tell you I represent factory; so I am not a factory, I represent a lot of factories for both the commercial space and the government space, and you know, like I said, of course we want the longer runs, but sometimes for survival you have to work in these small batch arenas, but there's a lot of capacity out there and I would say really on the short side from a sewing perspective, when it comes to fabric, that's where you can bundle. So really you kind of, you know, I would hope you could look at it in two different ways, sewing can do what you need them to do. Fabric - You have dye lots that you have to go by; usually it's 3,000 yards, the fabric people can tell you, but you know you have to really stick within a certain yardage for dye lots, so they're not as efficient with small batch, but it's the batches can be smaller than you think. They don't have to be huge. Sure.

[David Costello] Thank you, I’m David Costello, Warrior Protection Readiness Coalition. I just want to thank you all for doing this. I feel like I'm dreaming. We've been hoping for this day for years and years and years, and it's remarkable to see something like this coming together. Our association captures the entire supply chain from initial input of fiber materials all the way to the end item, be it a uniform or body armor or helmets. And related, Tyler, thank you for your service.

Appreciate that and your service continues. Here my question is kind of twofold. You showed the scope of the current contract runs through 2028. Is the intention to make a change before that contract runs out, or do you have to wait until it ends and the second part of my question is, is the notion here that you want to reflect the Berry Amendment type of requirements in what you will buy so, fiber forward so, you are buying as American as possible all the way 100% from fiber forward is what the Berry Amendment achieves. So I'm curious if that's the intention. So thank you.

[Michelle Yates] Sorry about that. The end date actually is 2027, so this is why we're doing our market research right now. As we procure because usually this type of acquisition can take up to a year for us to do a new one. So you know we're, that's why we're doing this now. So we can see what the market is.

[Gary Nederawa] Yeah. Hi, Gary Nederawa, Greenwood mills. We're weavers of fabrics. As you were saying, the current Army and all of the services now give out top or bottom contracts. Usually it's not the whole outfit, so I don't, I see that it would be possible to do it that way. You just have to know you're ordering this right.

Same amount if you're giving them to different vendors. The question I have is the contracts that you're going to, the solicitations, you're going to be putting out is going to have a the Buy America requirement on it?

[Tyler Kellogg] Is that to [me]? There we go - it's [the mic] working now. So in my introduction is within all applicable regulations and policies right now with the US government too, and what Mr. Stumo here said was, there are tools that we can use and we're analyzing those tools right now. Industrial mobilization is one we're looking into, but there are new avenues of approach that we could take here to encourage in more of a domestic sourcing requirement. But the contract vehicle, it's currently in the process of being developed. So there are things that we can use to encourage domestic production. And correct me if I'm wrong Nancy as well.

[Gary Nederawa] Right. Because you know, Berry is a congressional law. And without that, it's going to be, unless you put this has to be Buy America now Buy America, the end use has to be made domestically, but 65, 35% of the item can be sourced.

So my fabric is probably less; US fabric is probably less than 65% of the end use item cost, most of it is in the labor of the manufacturing of the garment. So I know it's going to 75% in 2028 I believe, but that's still going to probably keep the weavers, the domestic weavers, out because the manufacturers are going to try to bid the lowest they can and they're going to look to source the fabric and if they can source that fabric from overseas cheaper, they're going to do it.

[Michael Stumo] That percentage requirements, cost of components, it's not labor, it's not other stuff. It's cost of components, correct?

[Gary Nederawa] Correct.

[Michael Stumo] OK.

[Gary Nederawa] Well, I think it’s total cost of the end use item. So if the end use, if you're buying, [Michael Stumo] If the content requirement is the Buy America outside of Berry is assembled here, final assembly plus the cost of components; it excludes non-goods inputs for that calculation, so labor, labor, marketing, none of that stuff is included.

Now if you buy, if you buy in a component that is priced because it has labor in it, that's fine, but it cost the components is what it says. They cost a good … [Gary Nederawa] So the cost of the manufacturer to assemble that garment is not part of that cost, part of that percentage.

[Michael Stumo] A physical item that was bought and incorporated into the product is included, but for that final assembly to include labor, as part of that percentage.

No, their own labor.

[Tyler Kellogg] Just before the next question too, just for our introductions, I know you've met myself and Mr. Stumo, but just want to go through the panel right now and just do a quick introduction between all of us.

Tyler Kellogg, Advisor to the Secretary of the Interior, focusing on Interior’s Buy American efforts.

Michael Stumo, OMB Made in America office and Economic Policy Office.

Hi, my name is Nancy Lewis, I'm the Assistant Solicitor for the Branch of Acquisitions and Intellectual Property.

And I'm Michelle Yates. I am the Chief of Contracting under the Department of Interior, servicing National Park Service contracts and my ConOps, we support national programs and all the parks here in DC. So that's our role and of course the uniform contract funds falls under my organization.

Sarah Welch, my job title is Contract Specialist.

Jaime Mijares, Contract Specialist as well.

[Michael Stumo] I'm going to ask a question I neglected to say. The president's management agenda, which the president releases a management agenda every year, it's by statute, actually and Tyler alluded to it, but it says the words are very important for this. The president's management agenda, it's usually 50 pages.

Actually it's one page and on that page includes the words rebuilding industry through maximizing Made in America procurement. So it's not like grudging basic compliance with, you know, Made in America laws, it's maximizing it and to rebuild industry and so that means that where there is sufficient government demand to actually make a difference in industry, it's not with paperclips, it is with uniforms. It is with medical goods. You know, we're paying attention to that. And it also includes how not just what we buy, but how we buy. and so that's a prelude to the question that it's my understanding from past dealings with you all that a fixed price term contract. And I'll just say to the acquisition people here, so that means we consider the industry health as well as, you know, economy and efficiency of procurement, it is balancing that. Those longer term, a solid demand signal over actual demand over years, so that you all fill capacity, you have stable employment, you're able to invest in even you know more improvements, not only helps you now; helps you get cheaper financing and helps you with the CapEx so that you can get even more efficient in the future. Let's get a couple comments on that please, to what extent that's helpful; maybe it's not helpful.

[Kim Glass] Hey, Michael, you hit the nail on the head. I'm Kim Glass. I'm the President and CEO of the National Council of Textile Organizations, deeply grateful to the Made in America Office and the Interior team today. You have no idea how long our industry has been hoping for a phone call that we received from Tyler that you all were going to put this together and we hope that through the engagement with all of you we can demonstrate to you we can make a fully Made In America uniform at a competitive price and meet the goals that we all mutually want to meet.

And I'm so grateful a lot of our DLA partners are in this room. We are key suppliers to our U.S. military of over 8,000 different products, so please know we can make a uniform.

We can make all sorts of uniforms and we want to, I want to hit a couple things, both on what Michael said. The industry is running at 50 to 70% capacity. 50 to 70% capacity. So the urgency for us on Interior Department and quite frankly every other agency across the government to buy fully more Made in America product from the fiber stage all the way to the finished product will not only help our supply chain resiliency for our Defense Department but also will help this great industry in rural communities across this country that are the primary tax base, so we want to partner with you as quickly as humanly possible to achieve this. The second thing is, Michael, you've hit some of the constraints in the past. You know, sometimes our industry is faced with short lead times or small batch order and not a consistent demand signal over time so you end up hiring a bunch of workers and then laying folks off when that demand goes away. I think that just looking at your presentation today, understanding the number of employees, you have a fairly consistent demand level.

I mean, you have the same relatively the same number of uniforms every year.

So if you're issuing through the market research longer term contract, longer term order horizons, that's a great signal to our industry: Go invest. Go invest in your factory and your people because that demand signal is here. And you know, I think the fault of some of the Buy American which we, you know, obviously a lot of folks supply and Buy American products here, is it doesn't benefit absolutely everybody and we have a lot of idle capacity here that could truly benefit. So thinking about that, thinking about how to make sure you're giving the volume help, that's helpful to the industry, you know, but our industry stands ready to work with you. This is so very important to us and hopefully as engagement that you're having with us, you can spread to other agencies like DHS, like the VA hospital system saying, you know, this is working over here. So we want to work, we want this to work for all of us, so that's all I have to say.

[Michael Stumo] I'm just going to follow up on that because I did, we did have, you know, somewhat of a, you know, many of you were there, but not all of you, you know, a sit-down with DLA on similar issues last fall. Similar issues came up about this and DLA, as I understand, had not given you know sort of those longer term contracts with a consistent demand, even though DLA did have consistent demand - Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, all that, there is a, you know, every year it's within a margin that kind of demand; if that as opposed to an IDIQ or something and you know there were some procurement hiccups where you have a whole spike of orders and then down and I mean try running the Interior like that, where you got a spike of work and then you just, you know, have to like, well, you know, go home, or maybe you won't come back. Congress does that to Interior and us both. But you know, but DLA in that case. So I think they've sorted or have started sorting that out. They came to, you know, makes sense. And so as a company that has these, you know the orders, if you don't know what's coming, you can't go to a lender, you can't get covered. You don't have a lender story to you know, cover the gaps. If you have that, actually I found out in the medical space because we're kind of doing the same thing for like personal protective equipment or trying to. Essential medicines which we actually have more capacity than you would think in this country. And they have been demanding government money for, you know, demanding or requesting, you know, at various times. But shoot, if they have a solid demand signal, there's virtually unlimited, you know, capital lending, you got a story for the lender. You can upgrade.

You can keep current. You can fill. You know, obviously if you're full your per unit cost is a lot less. And so I just wanted to sort of share those stories that it can, you know, be very helpful with contract design to have that you know very steady demand so whoever is involved can use that to you know, for, for financing, for stability of employment, stability of the workforce, train the workforce, and the workforce has confidence that they are going to have a job and don't have to go, you know, become a Frappuccino server next week at no notice and can upgrade and keep, you know, keep, you know, keep the equipment current and a dialogue ahead of far as what are the needs, so that there is a lead time to sort of in some cases, equip for whatever particular requirements there is and to learn from industry, hey, there's some new stuff that you might want to consider that you didn't really know because you're not in the industry and we are, and here's, you know, some cool stuff is where things are going and you might want to incorporate that. So I'll thank you.

[Jackie Ferrari] So thank you, Mr. Stumo. I think you said something really great with contract design and I had the privilege of being at that DLA meeting and I can tell you that I have seen a dramatic difference in the way that DLA is approaching their purchasing. We just had JAPBI and it was there was an energy in the room that I have not ever seen. So I can tell you thank you, that I think that event was really telling and I do see it. You know, I would ask you, DOI, to be open to contract design, so to getting to know the vendors who are going to stand up and say I want to do this and to get you what you want, this is what I need. Because what Mr. Stumo was saying is financing is a huge part of this. And IDIQs are the death of a small business. So you know, until you get into the system and you figure out how to how to do it and how to make it work. But we are a small family of manufacturers. America is a small family and really we collaborate well and work really well together. And you know, if we can have that open dialogue with you and know your needs and then go back to the sewers, go back to the people who are supplying the fabric and all of that and work together to be successful for you. But really, you know, kind of ponder that contract design comment because that's really what it takes and it's what exists in industry and that's going to make this successful across all of these different agencies.

[Nancy Lewis] What do you envision?

[Jackie Ferrari] Sitting down with your supplier and saying I need 35,000 shirts over the course of the next three months, and what do you need from me to get that done? So it's a two-way conversation.

[Michael Stumo] Aren't you talking over years, though? Like 3. You know you don't want just a three month contract.

[Jackie Ferrari] No, I'm just saying, like, when things come up? Yeah, like having [Michael Stumo] What's the duration of the contract that you envision being? You know, it is common elsewhere?

[Jackie Ferrari] At least five years. If it's capital improvement though, if it's to expand a factory here, or to build a factory here, I definitely think it needs to be 7 years at least. But five years at the very, very least because you can't get financing with something that's not secure.

[Michael Stumo] What other terms would you suggest?

[Jackie Ferrari] Well, I think that the way the DLA pays in 15 days is super beneficial to every supplier. I think that they also have terms that are 30 days. I would not go over that, but that 15 days is a really, really big benefit and sweet spot.

[Michael Stumo] Anybody else? Contract terms? Recommendations, sir? Over here first.

[Paul Pinto] Paul Pinto, I'm with Milliken. When you get to the fabric level, you start talking about on the fabric side, the longer lead times are very helpful because if you think about it, you've got to really go from thread to weaving to finish fabric. So all that is additional lead time. So three months to make a fabric, it might it'll be within a window, might be six months, but you've got to make that fabric and then it's got to go and get cut and it's got to get sewn. And we've run into, very recently, situations where you've got manufacturers cutting and sewing, but they've run out of some of the other supplies they need like, say, zippers on a coverall. So we've got fabric, [but] they can't take it. We made the fabric to their orders. They can't take the fabric because they have no zippers to put their coverall together, so now they're forced to lay off people because they can't cut and sew because they don't have any zippers. So we've been trying to, we try to be very flexible and work with a lot of manufacturers to say, keep you out of [trouble], keep the fabric coming, maybe make the coverall so you don't lay anybody off and then when the zippers show up, catch the zippers up. But then they've got financial needs as well, right? They've got to pay for fabric they've ordered. They've got to keep people working, so again, the longer that lead time is, the more ramp up time you can keep people running, and running consistently. Then they can make those investments so they can keep that business running.

[Michael Stumo] But that wouldn't be Interior's problem necessarily except the lead time and that would give the prime vendor and the supply network the space to solve those issues so they could deliver as expected, right?

[Paul Pinto] Correct. Yep.

[John Colleran] Sir, good morning. I'm John Colleran with the CN Clark company. So we do a high durability fabric label that's sewn into most of the uniforms procured by DLA. Building off their 0% prompt pay for 15 days flow down to subcontractors, prompt pay for subcontractors would be just absolutely incredible as well. On the point about Buy America and percentages, so some of us here are in the kind of the trim space, if you will. Again, I do a label. I think there's some folks here that do patches and emblems, thread, zippers. I would encourage you to maybe investigate performance requirements. So for example our label is incredibly durable, incredibly strong. You can take upwards of 600-700 lbs per square inch on some of the burst tests. So again, if you're looking to try to provide an opportunity for Berry [Amendment] compliance, one thing that we can kind of take from, cross-pollinate from the DLA world is performance standards. So you know some of us again in the trim space might be kind of left behind when it comes to Buy American Act. But if you're looking for again high durability stuff, you by default kind of land with us.

Thank you.

[Michael Stumo] That brings up the total cost of ownership point, which is actually, you know, in manufacturing is one thing, the price of ownership starts with the price you buy something in. But there's a cost of ownership is the durability, the returns, and all that sort of thing. I don't know, if, I'll ask my colleagues here is the total cost of ownership concept common or used in procurement now?

[Michelle Yates] Not always, it just depends on what we're procuring. It does bring in and Nancy could probably, brings in a lot more locality and sometimes copyright, so we have to be kind of careful of that. I'm just generalizing and stuff… [Michael Stumo] Just something to consider, we don't need to resolve it here, but that's how you know there are hidden costs of other things going on besides the price. The Chinese sent it to, you know, quoted you…

[Michael Stumo] Any other contract…? yep.

[Andrew Nagle] So probably not how to write the contract. My name is Andrew Nagle with Conrad Industries in western North Carolina and we make embroidered patches.

So when you look at a uniform, we're the first thing you see and so Buy America does not help us at all because they're not making the patches in the United States.

So you mentioned Customs and Border Patrol, the uniforms made in Honduras. Well, the patches probably made in China, OK. So we need Berry [Amendment], absolutely, Berry. And we're a prime DLA supplier and they struggle to enforce, so enforcement's tough. We need enforcement. We're getting ready to meet with the Berry Amendment caucus next month on enforcement and it has to start there. If you don't do Berry, it's OK. You're not going to help the patch guy, for sure. I didn't mention fabrics. It's got to start fiber forward, right? So embroidery threads made in Mount Holly, NC, in Pennsylvania, you know, the fabric for the new Army AGUs, you know Burlington Mills, all of that, all those components, half the tumble, and then you've got to think of an enforcement component because it's easy to cheat. Like we're full of cheaters. The embroidery business, the insignia business is horrible. You know, I can buy thread made in China, have two embroidery machines and stitch in it in my garage. And you'll go, yeah, they make it in the United States. So we need your guys's help and what you're doing, we're so thankful, is Berry and then we need to work with, we need to work as industry with the Berry caucus and figure out if they're going to put money to enforcement or it's just fake, right? It's yeah, either Made in the United States, but they're not. So we appreciate you guys tremendously and it's huge. And if you ever want to come see where the patches for the astronauts are made, our patches just headed to the moon and are going to circle the moon. So NASA buys made in America. You know, they don't have to, but they do. So thank you for doing this. We appreciate it.

[Michael Stumo] Does anybody know what NASA? If you have a contact for NASA, I'm sure our DOI friends would like to see what they're doing too and learn.

[Jessica Sweet-Proulx] Hi, my name is Jessica, I'm from SMP in Massachusetts. We are responsible, one of the few manufacturers that do the metal work, so we represent the insignia realm which you know, we’re an ant compared to everything else we're talking about on uniforms. But along with what he's saying, the industry is full of cheaters and there is no accountability for it and we are constantly going up against what you guys consider to be reasonable pricing, but against what standard? What standard is reasonable when there are people with four employees, five cars in the parking lot, claiming to make everything from scratch, and they're selling it at pennies on the dollar compared to what domestic manufacturers are actually able to make it for and we are prime manufacturer for DLA as well, and we've brought this up to them and their response has basically been well, you know, give us proof. It's like, well, you're the US government.

[Michael Stumo] You brought it up to who?

[Jessica Sweet-Proulx] Defense Logistics Agency, the contracting officers.

[Michael Stumo] OK, let me know when you find evidence of this stuff, let my office know.

[Jessica Sweet-Proulx] Well, I think that's kind of the point, is [Michael Stumo] There is an EO that's recent that focuses the President. You may have seen it, a recent executive order on false labeling of goods, including goods sold to the Government.

[Jessica Sweet-Proulx] OK.

[Michael Stumo] And there's two remedies. One is to refer them for False Claims Act at the DOJ, but of course, that’s nothing against DOJ, but they got a lot to do, it's very helpful to focus on that. But the other is that they're pulled from government acquisition and that's where my office can be helpful. Getting the assertion to the right place and you start getting people pulled for not managing the supply chain and making false claims. So just, for everybody to the extent you see that you know, my office is newly relevant for that.

[Jessica Sweet-Proulx] OK. Awesome. And also in regards to the IDIQs, we had a five year contract that we got in goodness 2019 I believe, for service ribbons, but 2021 came around and obviously we all know what COVID did to the economy, and we were not able to hold that price. There was absolutely no way at all that we could hold the price and there was there was zero despite everything that the industry had gone through. I mean the world obviously, but there was no considerations for whether or not it was reasonable to expect us to hold a pre-COVID price. So we had to back out of the five year contract and then we they then got held against us for future acquisition opportunities. So you know those types of considerations and IDIQs would definitely help domestic manufacturers from our perspective.

[Jaime Mijares] So the way the current requirement is written is a total source. I know we do like the ordering - the employees can order off of it, as well as customization and like it's a total service, warehousing, ordering and I heard a lot about like the fabrics and that part. But is that a barrier for most of the companies here - it being a total source with the web-based ordering site and also like I said, the customization with the patches and that, in that area?

[Jack Cravy] My name is Jack Cravy. I'm with a company called cart.com. The Cart Government Solutions is subsidiary of that and I help in business development and I actually run a software division where we specialize in web order management platforms that you're talking about, right? In fact, we're about 60 days from launch for a DHS web portal that is almost identical to everything that you're asking for here for ICE agents across the country. So we're familiar with security standards. These requirements at a scale similar to yours, if not more. And I have some questions. So as you know, like agents ordering products through the web system typically contains PII because it's agent information, it's agent name, which is considered CUI.

So the requirements you're asking for sounds like a federal system which would require FISMA moderate, which would need an ATO to be able to do based on NIST 853 typically. Which we've done, right? So we're right there. We're really excited to launch. As you may also know, there is no FedRAMP ecommerce platform today in the market. If you guys haven't already tried to search for something like that, we are a sponsor away from getting that based on the existing work that we have with other agencies. So my question would be what are the requirements that you think would be ideal for a contract like this and would you consider FedRAMP sponsorship for a technology being used, and I guess a follow up directly to your question there is, is something like that considered in the total price in your sole source, when you're looking at what's fair and reasonable for past products which have not had an e-commerce platform that held such standards.

[Jaime Mijares] So I know we're taking a lot of this into consideration. Like I said, this is a market research format, so we are looking at all aspects of it, including the WBOS site and how we're currently, how it's currently in our requirements, and how that will work for us. So I do appreciate your information, given that; that way we could take it back to our contracting department and see you know is this the best path forward, how does this work - you know, what areas should we be looking at? And also is it a barrier to competition, if, if it's written in our requirements because I know like I heard the IDIQ might be a hindrance and so it's good to hear what the barriers are from you guys and also to meet companies that can potentially solve those issues, so thank you.

[Jackie Ferrari] One of the problems with the (we all know what the problems are with the IDIQ), but we would love it if you would take a look at … It's your contract to lose. So for example, if you have a company or a group of companies who are performing well on their contract and you're putting something out to bid against, if you're on a 5-year term, you know the company that has that contract, it should really be their contract to lose, rather than somebody else's to gain, and if it's driven by price then they should have the opportunity to rebid saying, you know, listen, you're 30% higher than and if you want to keep this because the biggest issue is you ramp up with employees, you ramp up with financing, you ramp up your company, you're solid and then you lose your contract and there's no that you know that is not as we try to move toward what industry does. That is not what industry does. You get you in industry. If you're clipping along and you're doing well and your score is high, your report card’s great and you are serving your customer well, you own that contract, you continue to get that. So I we would love to have that kind of thought at least like have a think tank from your seat on what something like that looks for because that retains jobs.