Attachment 2 Public Meeting 05-23-2011 mini.pdf

Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 05-23-2011

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Education Statistics Support Institute Network(ESSIN) Pre-Solicitation Conference

May 23, 2011 1:00 pm

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 MS. JOHNSON: Good afternoon. How's

3 everybody doing? Wonderful. Welcome to the United

4 States Department of Education's Pre-solicitation

5 Conference for the highly anticipated procurement

6 within the Institute of Education Sciences National

7 Center for Education Statistics titled, the Education

8 Statistics Support Institute Network Contract; also

9 known as the "network" or by the acronym ESSIN.

10 My name is Deila Johnson. I am the

11 contracting officer for this procurement. The purpose

12 of today's conference is to disseminate information to

13 potential offerors about this requirement. We

14 encourage you to communicate your comments, questions, 15 and concerns. At this time, I'd like to introduce the

16 Department of Education staff on our panel today. I'd

17 just ask you all to wave your hand or stand so

18 attendees know who you are.

19 To my left is Natasha Boyce. She is the

20 contract specialist. Alean Miller, the contracting

21 officer's representative. Marilyn Seastrom, the acting

22 deputy commissioner of the National Center for

1 to provide questions, comments, or concerns by last

2 Thursday. So those are the ones that, you know, we

3 will first go through. So, hopefully, it'll answer a

4 lot of the questions that you probably came here with

5 today.

6 If you have any questions, we ask that you

7 write them down on note cards and provide them to me

8 and Natasha at the end of the presentation. You will

9 also be able to comment or ask questions at the

10 microphone during this period. Some of your comments, 11 questions, and concerns -- the responses to those may

12 be provided today, and others may not. It just depends

13 on the complexity. Some things we may be able to

14 address today, other things we have to go back --

15 research due to the nature of it. And just for you all

16 to be aware, this pre-solicitation conference is being

17 recorded, and a verbatim transcripts -- transcript of

18 this conference, which will include all questions and

19 answers, will be released with the solicitation in June

20 on www.fbo.gov.

21 We ask that you put all cell phones and

22 electronic devices on vibrate at this time. There are

1 Education Statistics. And that's also known as NCES;

2 that's the acronym. From the Office of Small and

3 Disadvantaged Business Utilization, the small business

4 representatives are Marcella Coverson and Melanie

5 Carter. Helen Chang -- where are you Helen -- right

6 there. Helen Chang is the small business liaison

7 between the contracts' office in the Office of Small

8 and Disadvantaged Business Utilization. And is Sherese

9 Lewis here? Okay. She's not in here.

10 Now did everyone receive an agenda whenever

11 you came in? And did you also receive any note cards

12 or anything to write down questions on? Okay. If not

13 -- if you need it, raise your hands because I would

14 advise you to jot down questions as you go so if you

15 have questions later on you remember what they are. The

16 agenda will proceed as listed. We ask that you hold

17 all questions and answers to the particular period on

18 the agenda. Please note then during the Q&A

19 questioning period, we will provide responses to

20 questions received by last Thursday's deadline posted

21 on www.fbo.gov under the pre-solicitation notice. So

22 many of you all know that you were required to RSVP and

1 bathrooms and water fountains located on this floor.

2 And just locate your nearest Department of Education

3 staff, and we can direct you to those. So without

4 further delay, I introduce to you Alean Miller.

5 MS. MILLER: Good afternoon. I would like to

6 begin my comments by encouraging you to go to the NCES

7 website at nces.ed.gov. Spend some time familiarizing

8 yourself with our publications and products, surveys

9 and programs, the annual reports, data tubes, fast

10 facts, and other products listed on the site. Many of

11 the products and services described on the website are

12 supported by work that is described in the ESSIN

13 solicitation.

14 Throughout the presentation and hereafter, we

15 may refer to the contract or the solicitation of the

16 Education Statistics Support Institute Network as the

17 ESSIN or the "network." They are one in the same. The

18 comments made today highlight certain sections of the

19 solicitation and are the work of NCES. These comments, 20 by no means, are to be considered more important than

21 sections that may not be highlighted. All of the

22 information provided in my comments, and those of

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1 Deputy Commissioner Seastrom's, can be found in the

2 solicitation. You are encouraged to review, in detail, 3 the final release of the solicitation for changes

4 and/or additional information that may be incorporated

5 since the original release.

6 The network, formed under this contract, will

7 conduct work solely for NCES. No other group -- no

8 group other than NCES will award task orders under this

9 contract. To meet its responsibilities efficiently, 10 NCES contracts for specialized statistical support.

11 Currently, support is provided through two contracts

12 that end December 31, 2011. The network will replace

13 these statistical support contracts. The period of

14 performance for the network shall be for 60 months, 15 beginning January 1, 2012, through December 31, 2016.

16 However, offerors should review each Performance Work

17 Statement, and I may -- we may refer to that as the

18 PWS. It is the Performance Work Statement for specific

19 periods of performance.

20 The government anticipates an optional

21 renewal period for up to 60 months for the period

22 January 1, 2017, through December 31, 2021. Offerors

1 reserves the right to make as few as one award to each

2 contractor over the life of the contract.

3 The network will be formed with the awarding

4 of task orders in the first-round summer competition.

5 I'll repeat that. The network will be formed with the

6 awarding of task orders in the first-round summer

7 competition. At this time, NCES plans on awarding up

8 to 16 task orders to the selected contractors that form

9 the network. The remaining base-year task orders will

10 be competed among the network contractors in Groups A

11 and B, fall 2011.

12 Network contractors will be able to bid

13 competitively for task orders on support tasks, varying

14 in nature and scope, to provide a range of assistance

15 and expert advice to support NCES's national and

16 international data collections and assessments, 17 analyses, methodological research, statistical product

18 preparation, and training programs.

19 Group A is open to large and small business

20 contractors, which will both include individual

21 contractors and/or contracting teams. Group B will

22 consist only of contractors identified as small

1 awarded contracts must be fully staffed and ready to

2 begin work on January 1, 2012. This includes ensuring

3 that all personnel assigned to these efforts are fully

4 qualified and do not require additional training to

5 meet performance requirements.

6 The government anticipates awarding new tasks

7 annually and perhaps more frequently throughout the

8 contract period. Task awards may be for any duration

9 up to two years, subject to availability of funds, but

10 are expected to be of one-year duration for the most

11 part. The Performance Work Statement will be awarded

12 for an initial base period during the first year of the

13 contract, with annual options for years two through

14 five, if exercised.

15 The network -- and this -- now going into the

16 structure of the network. The network will be

17 comprised of large and small businesses that fall under

18 two groups: Group A and Group B. The nature and scope

19 of the work will vary from task order to task order, as

20 will the requirements. Approximately 25 task orders

21 will be issued annually. Multiple awards may be made

22 to contractors in Group A and Group B. The government

1 business contractors. Individual task orders will be

2 offered either as Category A, full and open

3 competition, or Category B, small business set-aside.

4 Contractors winning awards in the first round of the

5 competition will join the network as members of Group A

6 or Group B, based on their status in the Central

7 Contractors Registry -- the CCR.

8 Small business contractors may bid as the

9 prime contractor on individual tasks in either Category

10 A or B. Although contractors in Group A may not bid as

11 the prime contractor on individual tasks in Category B

12 -- the small business set-aside -- they may be bid as

13 subcontractors for up to 49% of any Category B task.

14 Conversely, a category in group -- a contractor in

15 Group B may be bid as a subcontractor on work in

16 Category A. Bidding as the prime contractor or being

17 bid as a subcontractor on an individual task in one

18 category does not preclude participation in a bid in

19 the other category on a different task.

20 Teaming. The government seeks competition in

21 the responses to the individual Performance Work

22 Statement. However, offerors may join together and

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1 submit a combined response to an individual performance

2 work statement. Offerors are encouraged to read

3 "Section VII. Nature of Contractors," item 2, "Teamings

4 or Subcontracting" in the solicitation. There will be

5 instances in which a single contracting group does not

6 possess the total expertise necessary to easily respond

7 to all of the anticipated requests for task work -- a

8 subtask work within a task. Therefore, proposed

9 efforts by a contractor to team subcontract will be

10 viewed as a positive response to addressing the work

11 needs, where appropriate.

12 Subcontractors and consultants may be added

13 at a later time with the permission of the COR and the

14 contracting officer. Group B offerors, who may want to

15 respond to work in Category B -- the small business

16 set-aside -- may also want to explore the feasibility

17 of joint ventures in order to respond. Offerors

18 interested in learning more about joint ventures may

19 want to contact Helen Chang in the Small Business

20 Office at helen.chang@ed.gov, or by calling

21 202.245.6173, or you may submit a joint ventures

22 question today during the question period. Helen Chang

1 MS. SEASTROM: Good afternoon. I'm going to

2 present a brief overview of NCES and some of the

3 important elements of working with NCES before I

4 summarize the overarching themes in the 16 individual

5 Performance Work Statements in the current network RFP.

6 The National Center for Education Statistics

7 is a principal statistical agency within the U.S.

8 Department of Education. Of the 13 principal

9 statistical agencies and units in the United States, 10 NCES ranks 3rd in terms of budget and 10th in terms of

11 size of staff. In 2010, each NCES employee supported

12 approximately $3.2 million in budget. By comparison, 13 the next largest number of dollars per staff is $1.2

14 million at the Bureau of Justice Statistics. As a

15 result of this balance of dollars to staff, much of our

16 work is done through contracts or interagency

17 agreements.

18 Our primary goal at NCES is to provide high-

19 quality, reliable, useful, and informative statistical

20 information to public-policy decision makers and to the

21 general public. The NCES statistical standards and

22 guidelines are essential to fulfilling our primary

1 is present at this meeting.

2 The nature of contractors. The ESSIN or

3 network contractors selected to provide support

4 services shall have a special relationship with NCES

5 beyond that which is common to normal contractual

6 relationship. Offerors are encouraged to read "Section

7 VII. Nature of Contractors." This section provides

8 details regarding structural autonomy, teaming, 9 subcontracting, access to NCES data, and facilities, 10 equipment, and place of performance. This is "Section

11 VII. Nature of Contractors" in the solicitation

12 document.

13 Where appropriate, the government is seeking

14 new and innovative ideas for conducting task work as

15 described in the Performance Work Statements of this

16 full and open competition with the small business set-

17 aside. Again, offerors are encouraged to review the

18 nces.ed.gov website to familiarize themselves with the

19 current products and services as you prepare your

20 responses. At this time, Deputy Commissioner Seastrom

21 will discuss standards, confidentiality, and provide

22 overall remarks about the work statements.

1 goal. In particular, the standards and guidelines

2 provide a means for promoting consistency across NCES

3 data collection and reporting efforts. They are

4 intended for use by NCES staff and contractors to guide

5 them in their data collection, analysis, and

6 dissemination activities. They are also intended to

7 present a clear statement for data users regarding how

8 data should be collected in NCES surveys and the limits

9 of acceptable applications and use.

10 The NCES statistical standards and guidelines

11 are organized around a common structure that was

12 developed by an OMB-sponsored interagency committee as

13 part of the 2002 government-wide information quality

14 guidelines initiative. This common structure was also

15 used in the subsequent development of the OMB standards

16 and guidelines for statistical data collections. I

17 would encourage you all to -- to look at these

18 standards. The elements identified include Development

19 of Concepts and Methods, Planning and Design of

20 Surveys, Collection of Data, Processing and Editing of

21 Data, Analysis of Data / Production of Estimates or

22 Projections, Establishment of Review Procedures, and

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1 Dissemination of Data.

2 The standards that are currently on our

3 website at nces.ed.gov/statprog -- one word -- were

4 extensively revised in 2002 through a quality-

5 improvement approach that involved approximately one-

6 half of all center staff. We're currently working on a

7 modest revision that we anticipate completing by the

8 end of 2011. All contractor staff working on NCES

9 contracts are expected to incorporate the NCES

10 statistical standards and guidelines in their work for

11 NCES.

12 As a statistical agency, NCES work is

13 subjected to strong confidentiality laws that guide our

14 commitment to protecting personally identifiable

15 information in all phases of data collection, 16 processing, and analysis. As a result, contractors

17 working on NCES projects that involve the use of any

18 restricted-used data, must apply for and receive a

19 restricted-use data license before they can access any

20 restricted-use data from NCES.

21 Contractors are required to comply with ED IT

22 security requirements as described in detail in the

1 vary by task, these tasks typically include the

2 planning and development of the data collection, the

3 monitoring of the data collection while it's in the

4 field, reviewing or knocking various aspects of data

5 quality; for example, EDICS imputations, item

6 performance, unit and item nonresponse bias analysis, 7 program control checks and disclosure analysis, 8 reviewing or preparing final data sets for release and

9 related documentation and/or methodology report;

10 conducting analysis for reports, tables, special

11 tabulations; writing and producing reports, ranging

12 from the initial release first-look reports to analysis

13 reports to large compendia, such as the Condition of

14 Education and the Digest of Education Statistics. Also

15 included are reviewing reports produced for NCES by

16 other entities, updating program-specific websites, and

17 developing and providing training for data field staff

18 and/or data users.

19 There are several tasks that require

20 specialized work for a specific data collection.

21 Included here are production support and desktopping

22 for annual reports and meeting support for NAEP

1 RFP. In addition, all contractors must comply with the

2 personnel security screening requirements in the -- in

3 ED, OM:5-101 throughout the life of the

4 contract. Specifically, all contractor and

5 subcontractor employees must undergo personnel security

6 screening if they will be employed for 30 days or more.

7 The type of screaming -- screening and timing of the

8 screening will depend upon the nature of the contractor

9 position, the type of data the contractor employees

10 will have access to, or the type of departmental

11 information technology system they will access.

12 Now I'd like to summarize some of the

13 overarching themes in the 16 individual Performance

14 Work Statements in the current network RFP. Of course, 15 we encourage you to identify specific tasks or task

16 that you are interested in bidding on and fully

17 familiarize yourself with the content and work of the

18 relevant NCES program and specific requirements

19 specified in work -- in the Performance Work Statement.

20 A number of the tasks require program

21 management support for one or more NCES data

22 collections. Although the specific requirements may

1 activities. There are a number of tasks that include

2 additional statistical and methodological research on

3 either specific data collections or on cost-cutting

4 issues that impact multiple NCES data collections.

5 Finally, there's one task that combines

6 support for the NCES data confidentiality and security

7 activities and support for center-wide technical review

8 of all NCES products with a set of data quality

9 monitoring and statistical research activities and one

10 that provides center-wide support for web improvements.

11 I would also call your attention to task

12 number 16; it's a little different in nature. It is a

13 expert help task. There is one task identified there, 14 and there's a plan for that as we have used it

15 previously as a -- as new projects come up. It serves

16 somewhat as an incubator for new projects; short turn -

17 - quick turn-around things that we need. So that task, 18 more than others, will require more of a description of

19 your company's capabilities, since we're looking for a

20 full range of experience just described in the RFP.

21 As you can see, the wide array of

22 requirements lends itself to the network approach that

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1 we're implementing in this procurement. I would like

2 to thank you for your attention this afternoon, and now

3 we are able to address the questions that were

4 submitted in advance of today's meeting. Thank you.

5 MS. BOYCE: Good afternoon. I'd like to

6 discuss the next steps in the procurement process. The

7 next steps include the release of the full solicitation

8 or RFP on FedBizOpps, and that full solicitation will

9 include the instructions to offerors and the evaluation

10 criteria. That RFP will be released in early June. And

11 all interested contractors will have 30 days to submit

12 their proposals to all of the task orders. Within the

13 30 days, you will have about 10 to 15 days to submit

14 clarification questions. Please submit those

15 clarification questions through email, and we will

16 answer all of those questions and submit all of the

17 answers back -- release all the answers to the

18 questions on FedBizOpps as an amendment to the

19 solicitation. We would like to remind you that -- that

20 we will reserve the right to award some of the task

21 orders without discussion, so please submit your best

22 offers cause we don't know if you will be -- we will

1 by the date of May 19th -- we'll go through those and

2 the answer that we are providing.

3 Question 1 reads: Contractor shall include in

4 its bid the names, positions, and qualifications of all

5 staff. This requirement appears to put non-incumbents

6 at a disadvantage. Will the names only of key staff be

7 sufficient to meet the requirement?

8 Reply: Thank you for this input. ED intends

9 on changing the final solicitation to require the

10 inclusion of the names, positions, and qualifications

11 of staff proposed for management, leadership, and

12 senior professional staff position. Also, because many

13 of the tasks are firm-fixed price, and the offeror must

14 be fully staffed and able to begin work on January 1, 15 2012, it is important that the government has clear

16 knowledge of the positions, labor categories, 17 qualifications, and hourly rates for each position the

18 offeror proposes in order to provide the work as

19 described. While the offeror may not be able to

20 identify all staff by name, the offeror must provide

21 the qualifications and hourly rates for each position

22 proposed.

1 enter into discussions with all offerors.

2 Also, the department is committed to reaching

3 their small-business goals, and we will be awarding as

4 many of these task orders to small businesses as

5 appropriate. However, all of the large business -- all

6 of the large business contractors are required to

7 submit a small business subcontracting plan, which

8 includes a minimum of 37.3% of all subcontract dollars

9 going to small businesses. The large contractor's

10 ability to exceed this minimum of 37.3% will be

11 evaluated as part of the evaluation criteria. And

12 within the 37.3% of subcontracted dollars slated for

13 small businesses, there are four additional

14 subcategories of small businesses, which are 5% to

15 small -- small business disadvantaged, 5% to woman-

16 owned businesses, 3% to HUD zone, and 3% to small

17 business disabled veterans. Small-business contractors

18 that are submitting proposals are not required to

19 submit subcontracting plans with their proposals or

20 small -- small business subcontracting plans --

21 contractor plans with their proposals. Thank you.

22 MS. MILLER: The questions that were received

1 Question 2: What is the role of the project

2 director, and how is it different from task leader?

3 Reply: To avoid any unnecessary confusion, 4 ED will use the term "task leader." The task leader

5 shall carry out the overall management and leadership

6 functions for work performed under the task order, 7 dependent upon the Performance Work Statement and/or

8 Statement of Objectives. The task leader may also have

9 responsibilities for conducting some of the work.

10 Are they to charge hours to each of the

11 tasks?

12 Reply: The senior staff member, i.e., task

13 leader or senior scientist, on each Performance Work

14 Statement is expected to function as an integral member

15 of the contractor's staffing team and, as such, shall

16 bill to the specific task.

17 Next question: Can different tasks have

18 different project directors/task leader? Yes.

19 Next question. Can one of the statistical

20 standards programs support task orders be full and

21 open?

22 Reply: No. Contractor staff hired to work

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1 on tasks 1 and 2 must be co-located and work as an

2 integral team on technical review and the related data

3 quality monitoring and special projects described in

4 these two tasks. These two tasks shall be awarded to

5 the same small business. Because the support for these

6 two tasks comes from separate budget lines, they must

7 be awarded and administered separately. A small

8 business can team with a large company to offer a

9 response.

10 Question 4: Are the 19,000 hours of task 12

11 for each year or total over five years?

12 Reply: If we exercise all options, we

13 anticipate the use of this many hours in 2012.

14 Next question: Task 11, subtask 5. Please

15 clarify the amount of staffing, either per data request

16 or for all 25 requests.

17 Reply: For subtask 5, under the "Assumptions"

18 section, the PWS proposes roughly one-half of an FTE

19 over the course of one year, with estimates by labor

20 types. Over the year, the number, kind, and complexity

21 of requests for data products can not be predicted.

22 NCES anticipates a need for two weeks of a task leader, 1 Next question: To be selected for the two

2 groups and to be given the opportunity to compete on

3 future tasks, do you have to be one of the contractors

4 awarded at least 1 of the 15 task orders? Do you have

5 to be the prime contractor on at least 1 of the task

6 orders?

7 Reply: There are actually 16 tasks. Yes.

8 The ESSI network will consist of the -- of the set of

9 contractors who are awarded 1 or more of the 16 tasks

10 in the first competition under the contract. Members

11 of the ESSIN are prime contractors.

12 Will each task be awarded to a single

13 contractor or contracting team? Or could multiple

14 awards be made for an individual task?

15 Reply: Yes. Each Performance Work Statement

16 will be awarded to one contractor or contracting team.

17 Question: The period of performance for many

18 tasks, i.e., task 5, task 7, task 11, is 12 months base

19 period, with annual options for years 2 through 5. Will

20 task with the base year in option years be competed

21 only once?

22 Reply: Each of the 16 tasks will be awarded

1 one month of a mid-level analyst three times, and one-

2 third FTE of a junior analyst for 25 data requests per

3 year.

4 Next question: Winners of task 14 and 15 may

5 not bid on any other NAEP contracts.

6 Reply: This is an error in the Performance

7 Work Statement for task 14 and 15 and will not be

8 included in the final solicitation.

9 Next question: Are there similar

10 restrictions for winners of task 9 (for example, not

11 bid on TIMMS and PIAAC), 11 (FRSS and PEQIS), and 12

12 (NHES and ECLS-K)? No.

13 Next question: Can small nonprofits be

14 counted towards the 37.3% subcontracting target? Can

15 small nonprofit bid as prime on Category B task orders?

16 Reply: Only those companies that are

17 certified as small businesses by the Small Business

18 Administration are eligible to respond to Category B

19 Performance Work Statements. Similarly, only those

20 companies that are certified as small business by the

21 Small Business Administration shall be counted towards

22 the 37.3% subcontracting target.

1 for a base period of 9 to 12 months, depending on the

2 start date for the specific work, with options for

3 years 2 through 5. ED reserves the right to terminate

4 the task at the end of year 1, to exercise the option

5 to continue the task with the year-one contractor, or

6 recompete the task in any subsequent year.

7 That's the end of the questions that we

8 received that NCES will respond to. These are

9 questions that we received by the 19th, the due date. I

10 think there may be some questions that Cam (ph) will

11 respond to today. After what you heard, if you have

12 questions or comments now, in a few minutes we will ask

13 you if you would like to go to the microphone, and you

14 may read to us your question or comment. We may or may

15 not respond to your question today; however, the answer

16 to any questions received today, either those that you

17 go to the microphone and ask or the ones that you write

18 to us or write to Cam, will be answered and released

19 along with the information today in the final

20 solicitation.

21 All right. Are there any questions? I ask

22 that you go to the mic and you state your name and your

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1 company's name. Talk clearly because this is all being

2 recorded.

3 MR. BAUM: Herb Baum, REDA International. It

4 concerns a comment that was made earlier and then in

5 answer to a question. In the comments, I think you

6 said that ED reserves the right to make one or more

7 awards for a given task. In the answers to questions, 8 you seem to imply that there would be one award per

9 task, and that's contradictory information. So can you

10 resolve that for us?

11 MS. JOHNSON: I'm sorry. Could you go back

12 and repeat your question? I'm so sorry. I was looking

13 at this.

14 MR. BAUM: In the presentation, it was noted

15 that ED reserves the right to make one or more awards

16 per task order. In the answers to questions that was

17 read later on -- I think it was question nine -- you

18 had responded that ED would make one award per task

19 order. So I'm asking -- in my mind I see this as being

20 two different answers to the same question. We'd just

21 like to know which is the right one.

22 MS. JOHNSON: All right. There will be --

1 the impression that 51% of the labor of the task had to

2 be accomplished by the small business to avoid having a

3 large business do all the work and the small business

4 do the travel arrangements. So I think I would suggest

5 some clarification that when a small business task is

6 being issued as to what percentage of the work that is

7 being done by the small.

8 The second concern has to do with the

9 department having an emphasis now on the focus on these

10 tasks being issued as expressed tasks; in some cases, 11 expressed level-of-effort tasks. While I have a

12 problem with that, what I do have a concern that is

13 where within this pre-solicitation there is some

14 inconsistency in the federal -- in the Department of

15 Education's implementation of fixed-price tasks. So, 16 for example, in the monthly report, I see where the

17 department is requiring level-of-effort by person, is

18 requiring costs by labor, costs by category, wants to

19 know each individual's labor rates. These, to me, are

20 issues that typically are not part of the fixed-price

21 tasking. If the government is really looking to do

22 these in a fixed-price mode, then the government is

1 whenever the first part of your question that you have

2 where there will be one or more -- that's to the

3 Performance Work Statements. So we'll have the 15

4 Performance Work Statements go out -- 16, I'm sorry; 16

5 at this particular time. And what's going to happen is

6 that there will be contractors selected, and they may

7 receive -- they will be awarded one, at least, if they

8 become a part of the network. But they may respond to

9 more than one Performance Work Statement. So it's

10 possible that they be awarded, you know, two, three, 11 four task orders from the -- from the Performance Work

12 Statements. Did that answer your question?

13 MR. BAUM: Yes. Thank you.

14 MS. JOHNSON: Any other questions? Don't be

15 shy. That's what we're here for.

16 MR. JESULAITIS: Tom Jesulaitis from AIR. And

17 I think I have a couple of concerns about the current

18 structure of the pre-solicitation RFP. Why I came up

19 today in this conversation where I thought I heard you

20 say that for the small business set-aside tasks that

21 51% of the total value of the task order had to be

22 accomplished by the small business. I had been under

1 buying a product. It is buying a deliverable. It is

2 expected to buy and accept a deliverable, and it's not

3 buying people. So it is up to the contractor to ensure

4 that the quality of the product is delivered such that

5 it's acceptable. That I think it is beyond the scope

6 for the government to require that kind of cost-

7 reimbursable reporting. Same thing with key personnel;

8 if the government is buying a fixed-price deliverable, 9 and is what I'm hearing the government was going to do, 10 then how the contractor delivers the work that the

11 contractor needs in order to deliver that is the

12 contractor's work. So I would -- you know, that's my

13 concern, and I would hope you would take that into

14 account as you go through again and look at the --

15 especially the reporting requirements as it would

16 apply.

17 MS. JOHNSON: Thank you, Tom.

18 MS CHANG: Being as I was just doing research

19 on subcontracting for Cain (ph). I have the clause:

20 52219-4 Limitation on Subcontracting. And he is

21 correct. The 50% refers to the cost of personnel.

22 MS. MILLER: And with regard to the second

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1 question, the reason that we included the requirement

2 for naming personnel has to do not with -- I think the

3 concerns that you were thinking of -- but with the fact

4 that in order to monitor the contractor's security and

5 to ensure that all the staff working on projects have

6 the necessary contractor security clearance, we -- we

7 need to have that information as to who is working on

8 an individual task each month so we can make sure we're

9 in compliance with the security clearance requirements

10 government wide.

11 MS. JOHNSON: Any further questions? Going

12 once, going twice. All right. Okay. One more.

13 MS. HARDAWAY: My name is Bridgett Hardaway, 14 and I'm with GEARS. You mentioned 16 Performance Work

15 Statements and 25 total for the year. How many of them

16 will be Group B?

17 MS. MILLER: Okay. At this particular time, 18 there are eight in Category B at this time, but that --

19 that number's subject to change.

20 A question received. If a successful offeror

21 now a large business becomes a small business this

22 fall, may the company bid on small business Group B

1 this contract in Category B and subsequently grows to a

2 large business, is it still allowed to bid in Category

3 B as a small business?

4 MS. MILLER: I would say no. I would need to

5 do more research on that. But if you're a small

6 business, we expect that you're gonna be a small

7 business throughout the course of the period of

8 performance. So I don't think it would be fair if

9 you're a small business and then your designation

10 changes to large, you can't be in the same category

11 with the other small businesses. That would be unfair.

12 MR. MCAFEE: Paul McAffe from Children's

13 Institute. First, an observation on that one. Winning

14 one of these awards could push a small business in the

15 large business classification so that would be an issue

16 to address. My question is related to the 3% service

17 disabled veteran-owned small business set-aside. Will

18 you be requiring that those SDVOSBs be Center for

19 Veterans Enterprise verified?

20 MS. MILLER: Yes. We will do all

21 verifications with the help of our small business

22 liaison in Small Business Office. Since Helen is here

1 task in the fall? And does that have to do with the

2 NAICS code? Whoever asked that question. By the time

3 this solicitation goes out, it will be what you are

4 categorized at that particular -- at that particular

5 time. So whenever you go out and this RFP closes, by

6 that particular date, if you're not a small business

7 then, you know, if you -- if you come into the network

8 as a -- if you're not a small business then you won't

9 be able to apply for anything. But if you come in the

10 network and your designation does change, then we would

11 have to look at that further because you can't be a

12 large business and then a small business. So we would

13 look -- we would look at that further. But whatever

14 your status is by the time you submit your proposal, 15 that's the type -- your business type. So if it

16 changes, we'll just look at that further.

17 MR. TURNER: I have a follow-up question to

18 that. I think it's slightly different.

19 MS. MILLER: Your name. Could you please

20 give your name and your company?

21 MR. TURNER: I'm sorry. Mark Turner, Optimal

22 Solutions Group. So if a small business is awarded

1 -- Helen, could you come to the mic and briefly talk

2 about joint ventures? What that is in case there're

3 companies here who don't understand or know what joint

4 ventures is.

5 MS. CHANG. There hasn't been a lot of joint

6 ventures here for the department, and we're just

7 learning about it. But, basically, a joint venture is

8 a legal agreement between two small businesses. You --

9 you go in and you form a joint venture where you set

10 out for the purpose, maybe, of bidding on this

11 contract, who's doing what, what you're doing, if you

12 are both -- if you look on the SBA website -- if you

13 are both small under the NAICS code, you can bid as a

14 small business. But a joint venture is a legal --

15 legal agreement. It's just not I'm -- we're gonna work

16 together. It has its own DUNS number, and it's set up

17 for the purpose of doing something together.

18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I though a joint

19 venture could be a small and a large business.

20 MS. CHANG: It certainly can be a small and a

21 large, and -- but if it's a small and a large, then --

22 then the large has the NAICS code. But whatever the

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1 NAICS codes is, then the offeror will be a large.

2 MR. MARKER: That's not the way other

3 government -- pardon me. Microphones. I'm David

4 Marker from Weststat. I know that joint ventures can

5 be two small, but they can also be a small and a large, 6 and with the small as the management -- there's some

7 term for that. So it is bid as the small, and there

8 are certain restrictions that are different than on the

9 51-49. So if that's the kind of joint venture you're

10 open to, that's very important for us to know that. In

11 other words, on the Category B, if -- if joint ventures

12 that are a mixture of a large and small can bid

13 together, that -- that would be very helpful for you to

14 clarify.

15 MS CHANG: We will have to go back to the SBA

16 R13 to figure that out. Okay.

17 MR. MARKER: While I'm up here, if I could

18 just follow up on Tom Jesulaitis's very good question

19 and Marilyn's very reasonable response though for

20 security clearances you need to know who's working on

21 it even if it's fixed-price. But if that's the case, 22 if the reporting requirement could be that you have to

1 we have done our research, and have some -- some

2 valuable information for you. Are there any other

3 questions, concerns, or comments at this time? Well if

4 there is nothing else, next we will have our meet and

5 greet, and that's just a time for you all to network

6 among each other -- amongst each other. I'm not sure

7 you all know each other. If you have any questions for

8 us, you can ask those, but we definitely ask for you to

9 write those down so we can publish them. And we just

10 want to thank you for coming out and taking -- taking

11 your time out of your busy schedule to come, and we

12 look forward to this procurement. And thank you so

13 much and have a great day.

15 * * * * *

1 report who worked every month on it and not all of the

2 financials that go with that, that would seem to be

3 more in keeping with the requirements of firm-fixed

4 price work.

5 MS. JOHNSON: Any other questions, comments, 6 concerns? Okay. If Helen could come back up and

7 address or provide -- she's shaking her head no -- or

8 provide some clarification of our understanding of

9 joint ventures is whenever you do join a partnership, 10 all the members become primes. Is that our

11 understanding of that? That all the members are primes

12 cause -- because you all will be sharing equally in

13 those.

14 MS. CHANG: No. No. A joint venture is a

15 legal entity that has its own DUNS number. It's not --

16 it's not two businesses joined -- I should say legal

17 entity.

18 MS. MILLER: Okay.

19 MS. CHANG: Either large or small, but it's a

20 legal entity with its own DUNS number.

21 MS. JOHNSON: Well, regardless, we'll have

22 this all posted whenever we release the solicitation, 1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC

2 I, RICK SANBORN, the officer before whom the foregoing

3 deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the

4 witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing

5 deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of

6 said witness was taken by me in stenotype and

7 thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction;

8 that said deposition is a true record of the testimony

9 given by said witness; that I am neither counsel for, 10 related to, nor employed by and of the parties to the

11 action in which this deposition was taken; and, 12 further, that I am not a relative or employee of any

13 counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor

14 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of

15 this action.

19 Rick Sanborn

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